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kchavis
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Posted: Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:51:47 PM | IP Logged

Simple question? Will the CGX guys release/sell their courses? They have created so many authentic/real courses, it would be great to get our hands on them...to create custom tour seasons, etc....THanks 
 
 
 
 

 
TeeOffTowers
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Posted: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 9:16:14 AM | IP Logged

It is up to the individual designers. I have and I believe PCDurum will. I know that Bruce has decided not to and that is his call. I do not know about the others. 
 
 
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The way we are playing here you might want to throw the clubs in the lake. If you throw the clubs in the lake, you might miss the lake.

No course in the works: retired.

 
 
 

 
huskereuroca
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Posted: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 3:41:52 PM | IP Logged

Someone help us understand what would be the pros and cons of releasing these courses to the community. 
 
 
 
 

 
SandieBunker
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Posted: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 10:55:11 PM | IP Logged

There are no cons. It would go a long ways to unifying the cyber golf community if ex-CGX courses were shared with others to enjoy.
 
 
 
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dave319
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Posted: Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 3:20:28 PM | IP Logged

Yes, there ARE cons. Some of the courses might still be considered the intellectual property of CGX. I speculated that those that were wholy created by the individual designers are THEIR property to do with as they please. But any course that was created by another designer must have their permission before they release it. Therefore, any courses created or worked on by Jim would need his permission to release. The rest, I believe, would remain the property of the designer, unless there was some arrangement by which ownership transfered to CGX upon their completion.

BTW, I am not a lawyer, but I play one on the internet. 
 
 
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SandieBunker
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Posted: Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 6:50:10 PM | IP Logged

Wouldn't CGX need to exist in order to 'own' CGX courses? If I were still designing and had contributed to the CGX courses, I sure as hell wouldn't want them squirreled away on someones hardrive gathering dust in the back of a closet. What's the use in that?

If CGX has truly packed it (why someone hasn't surfaced to at least acknowledge that is a diffent thread altogether), it's a shame to take everyone's efforts who contributed to the courses down with it. Perhaps the contributing designers could get together and decide what they would like done with all the years of THEIR hard work?

 
 
 
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GolfMikeLK
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Posted: Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 8:37:37 PM | IP Logged

edited by: GolfMikeLK on Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 9:13:00 PM
 
just for the record all my builds for CGX were co builds with mark. I have never teamed up with Jim to build a course. And my courses have never been the property of CGX. Jim needs to man up and tell every one whats going on with the site. 
 
 
 
 

 
huskereuroca
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Posted: Friday, September 4, 2015 at 12:36:11 AM | IP Logged

So if there isn't a contract, or even a gentlemen's agreement for CGX ownership of a course, it would sound as if a designer could say, I'll take my toys and go home. Not sure where the sense is in that unless they think that they will make something off the course at a later date.

I think Mike said it best, it would be nice to know the eventuality of the site so we could all carry on, whatever direction each designer wishes to take. 
 
 
 
 

 
jbcalg
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Posted: Friday, September 4, 2015 at 11:01:26 AM | IP Logged

edited by: jbcalg on Friday, September 4, 2015 at 11:09:00 AM
 
random opinions

@dave - pretty much nailed it IMO - inherent copyright applies, and all cgx course & library downloads carried a ''not for sharing'' type of agreement members clicked on

@sandi - existence - what a concept - copyright doesn''t disappear because a website does

@M & M - yup, your own work is yours to do with as you see fit

@husky - cgx design team was an early concept for a collaborative approach to building courses and libraries - yes, a gentleman''s agreement - worked well until it didn''t, but as time went on and some designers moved on or chose to view their contribution or work on a course as uber significant (and hence "mine"), the ''team'' became smaller and other designers were asked to jump in and help out

M&M contributed a lot after that time, but as Mike stated above - they pretty much always did their own work, adding CGX to to course names etc as needed - so their choice/option to release courses hasn''t changed - pretty much always that way

towersley and durum chimed in elsewhere i think
but my opinion is unless you legitimately have the tca file (design file) and can make changes - then you got nothing :)

-------
and frankly - a lot of the recurring courses on the PGA/Euro tours really weren''t upated or changed much year to year - so a 2012 or 2013 version isn''t significantly different from a 2014 or 2015 one

-------
... and no - nothing new re: knowing anything else about jim''''s whereabouts, plans, etc, etc 
 
 
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Gunpower61
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Posted: Friday, September 4, 2015 at 12:37:21 PM | IP Logged

edited by: Gunpower61 on Friday, September 4, 2015 at 12:37:00 PM
 
Thanks for the reply jbcalg 
 
 
 
 

 
Jimbo63
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Posted: Friday, September 4, 2015 at 4:03:45 PM | IP Logged


huskereurocat said:
"So if there isn't a contract, or even a gentlemen's agreement for CGX ownership of a course, it would sound as if a designer could say, I'll take my toys and go home. Not sure where the sense is in that unless they think that they will make something off the course at a later date.

I think Mike said it best, it would be nice to know the eventuality of the site so we could all carry on, whatever direction each designer wishes to take."


If I remember correctly course designers should not make any monetary gain from designing TW2008 courses. I think it was part of the EULA applied to free use of the Course Architect. 
 
 
 
 

 
GolfMikeLK
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Posted: Friday, September 4, 2015 at 6:30:49 PM | IP Logged

edited by: GolfMikeLK on Friday, September 4, 2015 at 11:50:00 PM
 
Your right Jim, we are not allowed to sell our course builds because the software rights belongs to EA Sports 
 
 
 
 

 
SandieBunker
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Posted: Friday, September 4, 2015 at 9:58:05 PM | IP Logged

edited by: SandieBunker on Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 12:54:00 PM
 
Thanks Golf Mike for chiming in and giving your perspective on course ownership/monetary gains.

 
 
 
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huskereuroca
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Posted: Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 12:48:16 AM | IP Logged

Thanks for helping out here jbcalg. Since it sounds as if there was a gentlemen's agreement made at first that should be enough, if your yes means yes and no means no. It may be unpopular, but I would agree then that the courses in question are CGX property. What a pity if these courses are not opened up by CGX.

I would reserve judgement on Jim until something a little more definitive comes to light. Heaven forbid something in the negative has happened. And I don't mean losing a few dollars folks! 
 
 
 
 

 
SandieBunker
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Posted: Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 12:52:43 PM | IP Logged


jbcalg said:
"random opinions

existence - what a concept - copyright doesn''t disappear because a website does

"


@JB:
Not the point I was getting at. IF CGX no longer exists, why couldn't 'CGX' release courses so that what remains of the TW08 community might enjoy them? Seems kind of a waste for all that work from multiple designers ends up going down with the ship (if it has indeed sank), and not to be utilized and enjoyed by the community. Moot point at the end of the day obviously, as there has been no word from CGX/Jim. Seems out of character...

If you want to get into copyright, agreements, etc, what about all those that paid to play for a year and now have no access to the tour nor the courses? No dog in the fight as I was just trying to rejoin CGX when this happened, just curious?  
 
 
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SIRPUTTERMAN
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Posted: Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 3:22:35 PM | IP Logged

edited by: SIRPUTTERMAN on Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 3:23:00 PM typo
 
For all practical purposes I think the site is dead. It has been over a month now with zero information to indicate otherwise. I realize that yes designers did agree and members also had to agree not to share any courses or libraries of CGX but seriously if the site is in fact done what good comes from hoarding said courses of libraries from the general public? I realize the coyright issue and respect it but it would be pretty petty to think anyone would take legal action over sharing the courses and libraries of a defunct site.

Designers design not to have their works mothballed away so no one gets to use them. They spend countless hours on their projects and want it to be enjoyed by many. So in the spirit of what PGAX/CGX believed in,I think that yes the courses and libraries should be made available eventually. What I mean by that is say by the end of this year if no word is heard from Jim whether it be yes,no, maybe to the existence of the site then no one should feel bad about sharing these courses or libraries with the public as long as its on a free basis.***DISCLAIMER***( This is only my opinion and not in anyways legal permission to upload, share, or distribute any of as fore mentioned, courses or libraires)

Jb you are right,some of the courses are older but many have not played them as they were not members of CGX so it would be like a new course for them. TW08 is no doubt drawing to a conclusion as more and more people move on and the simple abiility to be able to run the game in a few years could be almost impossible. It does seem to be a shame that some fine courses will never be played again simply over the fact that someone "owns" them. I mean there is no monetary gains to be made by sharing either courses or libraries so to think someone would go through the expense of a legal battle over it when there is no other avenue to obtain these courses or libraries would be in my opinion just plain vendictive for whatever reasons.

I just wish Jim would even come on and make a simple statement on the status of CGX and if it is indeed done give his permission being the owner of the site, to allow both courses and libraires released to the general public. That though is something I have no control over.

 
 
 
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Gordo
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Posted: Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 7:51:01 PM | IP Logged

I'm not understanding CGX's use of "copyright". Don't course makers try to make courses for CGX that emulate real courses most, if not all, of the time? If that's the case and money was being exchanged then those are the copyright laws that I would imagine are actually being broken. It would be like someone here charging a fee to download the created players they make or custom ball with a real business logo. These would be copyright infringements. So I don't understand this talk of CGX and copyright.  
 
 
 
 

 
SIRPUTTERMAN
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Posted: Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 11:45:58 PM | IP Logged

No designer I have ever known has made one cent from any course made. That would be against EA Sports EULA for the course archetict and no one wants to take that on. The agreement was more to keep the courses exclusive to CGX with the odd one released to the general public. The reason for that I will not go into as it was a long time ago but it wasn't very pretty either. Water under the bridge so to speak.

CGX members had to agree to the terms of downloading by checking a box saying they would not share or distribute any course or Library outside of CGX members. That is where things get sticky as far as the legal side goes.

Yes it was worded plainly so there is no misunderstanding of the agreement so to follow the letter of the law, yes this would be considered binding. That said as I mentioned if in fact CGX is now a defunct site it does no one any good to own said courses or libraries and to hoard them away. As I said the spirit of CGX was to make courses for its members to enjoy and now that the site is not functioning it would seem to stay with that spirit to allow others to enjoy these courses and libraries so that the game TW08 can go on.

Now don't get me wrong there are other courses being made for the general public to play but if having access to the libraries that belong to CGX were even to be used then it just gives more options for more courses with more varity to them. In a way it would be an appropriate tribute to the CGX site that the good memories would still live on even if the site does not, through the makeing of other courses with libraries that came from there.

That is my opinion anyways for whatever its worth.  
 
 
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PCDurum
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Posted: Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 10:21:17 AM | IP Logged

edited by: PCDurum on Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 10:26:00 AM
 
Unfortunately unless Jim decides to upload them I doubt we will see many of the CGX US tour courses again as Jim or RobC had done pretty much all the work on many of them!
I have a couple I did most of the work on and would like to upload onto the CGX page here,TPC Boston and Chambers Bay imediately spring to mind! I do not think Jim would object as I had intended to upload TPC Boston here last year with Jims approval, I just never got round to it!
I intend to post all my own CGX designs here once I get round to putting 4 pins per green on them!
Could I ask if any of the CGX members here still have either Sotogrande or Laguna National on their machine? If so could you send me a lib list for them please!I have the tcas but can''t upload them to recompile because I don''t remember what libs I used! C: 
 
 
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TeeOffTowers
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Posted: Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 1:41:08 PM | IP Logged

Pete,

I have a copy of Laguna National but not the other. The libs used for Laguna are:

Central Park 2007
CGX EXtras
CGX Pebble Beach Textures 2012
CGX Summer Textures 2011
Cog Hill
Doral
Firestone
Laguna Club
Medinah Textures
Metropolitan Pano
Pebbe Beach GL 2008
PGAX KLGCC Structures
PGAX Le Golf Nationale Structures
Westchester
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The way we are playing here you might want to throw the clubs in the lake. If you throw the clubs in the lake, you might miss the lake.

No course in the works: retired.

 
 
 

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